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Old Apr 12th, 2006, 08:14 AM
Andy26 Andy26 is offline
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Default Structured wiring for sonos..

Having read a lot of advice on here, I've decided to go for Sonos as my multiroom audio solution. As I'm currently renovating my new house I have also decided to install structured wiring, based on advice here.

As I know little about this, can anyone provide some simple answers to the following?

I'm planning on running Cat6 to most rooms for telephone, sonos, LAN. I'm thinking of RG-6 to each room too. I'm only going to have a cable set-top box in one room - any advantage to running RG-6?

Do I also need to run cables to the utility entrypoint? If so, what cables and where to?

In each room I'll probably end up with 4 Cat6 and 2 RG-6. What terminations should I use?

How big a patch panel do I need for this set-up? How do I connect up the cables to the patch panel so that the zp's are all wired together, the telephone line is available to every room, and a LAN is available in each room.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but neither I or my builder have much experience with structured wiring.

Many thanks for your advice..
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  #2  
Old Apr 12th, 2006, 08:52 AM
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Majik Majik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy26
Having read a lot of advice on here, I've decided to go for Sonos as my multiroom audio solution. As I'm currently renovating my new house I have also decided to install structured wiring, based on advice here.

As I know little about this, can anyone provide some simple answers to the following?

I'm planning on running Cat6 to most rooms for telephone, sonos, LAN. I'm thinking of RG-6 to each room too. I'm only going to have a cable set-top box in one room - any advantage to running RG-6?
Not for Sonos.

If, however, you ever want to distribute the Cable TV signal around your home, it's worthwhile.

Quote:
Do I also need to run cables to the utility entrypoint? If so, what cables and where to?

In each room I'll probably end up with 4 Cat6 and 2 RG-6. What terminations should I use?
For Cat6 use RJ45 faceplates. For the RJ6 I believe F-type coax connectors are the standard for this in the US.

It's possible to get combo/modular faceplates you make up with the modules you need so a single faceplate can have both RJ45 and F-type connectors.

Quote:
How big a patch panel do I need for this set-up? How do I connect up the cables to the patch panel so that the zp's are all wired together, the telephone line is available to every room, and a LAN is available in each room.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but neither I or my builder have much experience with structured wiring.

Many thanks for your advice..
First you should treat the RG6 and CAT6 as separate. The most common use for the RG6 will be CATV distribution, so a typical scheme would be to put a single point in each of the rooms where it's likely or possible for a TV to be located. Typically this would be main living rooms and bedrooms. Be sure to put the CATV point near where a TV is likely to be located.

You don't need to wire this back to the same patch frame as the CAT6. I think in the US it's typical for this to be connected in the loft via a signal amplifier. Certainly this is how it is done in the UK.

As for the Cat6, you should consider the locations of the wall points carefully. If there are four in a room then distribute them around the room a bit rather than having 4 in one place, unless the room particularly suits it).
As for patching mini patch cabinets are available for this sort of application. Audiophilliac can probably advise as he seems to have a lot of experience in this area.

The spot you pick for your patch panel ought to have power nearby, as you are likely to have powered networking kit there. As for the utilities, I thought it was normal for the utility company to wire the service to where you wanted it. For telephone this would be near to your patch panel. For CATV it wuld normally be to where you have your decoder, although if you have cabled the RG6 to a patch frame then it can be to this frame.

As for patching, you have loads of flexibility with structured cabling. With the network you can simply patch sockets from a switch to each of the rooms and place a ZP there connected to the socket. This isn't the only solution by any means: you can daisy-chain the ZPs if you want, or do a hybrid. Basically as long as all of the devices are connected directly or indirectly together they will normally work. For LAN you can either wire separate ports to each room from the ZP, or simply plug into the back of a ZP (as each ZP100 has a 4 port LAN switch).

As for phones, I'm not to sure of the US wiring scheme for this so I can't advise. In the UK I have a 4-way "master socket" (it has 4 slave sockets) and I can patch each of these to a different room. In these rooms I connect a phone to the line.

The other thing you might want to consider is where you get your Internet service from. If you get it via Cable then there is usually an ethernet port on the cable decoder. If there is a convenient wall-socket then you can patch this back to a router installed in/near your patch frame. If it's DSL then you will have a splitter on the telephone line somewhere with one side going to the phones and the other to the router.

Cheers,

Keith
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Old Apr 12th, 2006, 09:06 AM
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RO53BEN RO53BEN is offline
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You might want to consider getting a specialist in to help you out, it doesn't cost that much.

Ask the guy who gives you a quote if he does weekend work for cash...you only need a few runs
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  #4  
Old Apr 12th, 2006, 09:19 AM
ctwilliams ctwilliams is offline
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Default AVS Forum

I am engaged in a similar project and have found the AVS Forums a great site for research. Check out:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36

There are many posts with questions and answers similar to yours....
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  #5  
Old Apr 12th, 2006, 09:40 AM
buzz buzz is offline
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Good advice from Majik.

In the US, a home run (separate cable from the central point) of Cat-5 or Cat-6 to each telephone location is the best idea for future proofing the installation. (Note that I say "Cat-5", but it is really the improved "Cat-5e". My suppliers don't even carry Cat-5.)

Simple, dumb phones need only a single pair (two wires). Complex phones may need two pairs per phone. Some of the complex phone systems allow a single socket to share smart and dumb phones (such as a fax machine). With the full four pairs in a Cat-5 or Cat-6, you could potentially have one smart phone and two dumb phones per jack. By "complex" or "smart" phone I mean that there is a KSU (a specialized computer) at the centeral location that services the individual phones. Usually, the smart phones cannot be connected directly to a regular phone line.

As far at the service drop is concerned, each situation is different.

There will be an obvious spot where the services will enter the house. This may or may not be a convenient location for the central wiring boxes. At the central box location, mount a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood. This will provide a convenient mounting base for whatever you need. Run enough Cat-5 and RG-6 between the two locations to support your requirements. If you intend to use Satellite radio or TV, I recommend running six (yes, that's s-i-x) satellite certified RG-6's up to the roof. You won't use all of those RG-6's immediately, but someday you'll kiss yourself for running that extra wire.

---

As I've said before, you can never run too much wire. A few months ago, I advised a fellow to run lots of wire during a remodel. He didn't quite understand why I wanted so much wire for one computer and one phone line. Already there have been some changes and the extra wire has started to pay off.
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  #6  
Old Apr 12th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Audiophiliac Audiophiliac is offline
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I guess I will chime in since this is what I do for food.....

Most of what has been said is correct. Let me break it down into a simple list.

1. Structured wiring is normally a bundle of 2 RG6 and 2 CAT5e. Usually this is enough for most anything. Keep in mind that each ZP also is a switch/hub, so you may not need more than 2 CAT5 in each location. If you use a cordless phone system (like 90% it seems do), you wont need a phone jack in every room.

2. Choose a spot for your centralized location to run all your wiring too. I suggest at least a 36" sturctured wiring panel (Open House H336). Have the electrician run power to this panel. (Open House H291 or similar). This panel is where you want to run ALL of your wiring to.

3. Run a structured bundle and a 12 ga. ground wire from the panel to the demarcation point on the outside of the house where the cable/phone service enters. This will tie in all your services to your centralized panel.

4. If running satellite, run at least 5, might as well do 6 RG6 and usually a ground wire to the dish location. Also, run a RG6 into the attic for a local antenna (can't beat free uncompressed local HD channels).

5. Place your router/modem/switch in the panel. You can simply terminate all your CAT5 with RJ45 connectors and plug them straight into your switch/router, or you can get punch down blocks (Open House H328) to make it look a bit neater. They also make phone punch down blocks which is the best way to distribute your phone. (Open House H316/H318). For Cable/antenna distribution use an Open House H338HHR distribution amplifier. It has 8 outputs and connections for IR and modulation as well. The satellite multiswitch will also go in the panel if you need one. All of your satellite wires go into this, and distribute to the rooms you want satellite signal in. (if you have lots of rooms, it may be better to use 2 36" panels....one for phone/network, and one for satellite/cable distribution).

Thats it pretty much. Choose locations in each room that will be most convenient. If you have an office, you might run a few extra net cables there. We use Leviton Quickport plates and plugs to terminate all the wall jacks. You can fit up to 6 jacks in a single gang box. In your case, I assume you will be using ZP100. So you will want to do a 2 gang box leaving one side available for your speaker wires to terminate. Then run the speaker wires from the boxes where you will place Zp100 to the locations you want speakers at.

Here is a couple pictures I posted in another thread to give you an idea of a finished structured panel. All it takes to get them looking neat is zip ties and creative placement of the parts.

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Audiop..._001.sized.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Audiop...0754.sized.jpg
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  #7  
Old Apr 14th, 2006, 01:17 PM
dobbin dobbin is offline
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From the advice that I have been given for a similar setup:

1. Use Cat5e and don't bother with Cat6 Unless it doesn't cost much more. Cat5e Speeds will be more than sufficient for a long time to come.

2. Don't use RG6 use CT100 (or similar H109). For a small extra cost the difference is substancial.

You could also look at the loftbox type of system.
See http://www.tvlink.co.uk/loftbox.htm

Hope this helps
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  #8  
Old Apr 14th, 2006, 07:04 PM
Karenna Karenna is offline
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Audio, I'm loving the pics of your distribution setup, and I'm trying to do a similar job of my own.

I have the LAN side down, no problem, but I'm trying to figure out the Sat side...have DirecTV. I notice you used a 6x8 Zinwell multiswitch. I assume that at each end, you need a receiver box? Is there a way to share Sat without the need for a box at each TV?

Also, I was planning on running RG6 Quad. Good enough, or should I invest is something better?

Thanks in advance, and keep the good advice up, guys
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  #9  
Old Apr 14th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Audiophiliac Audiophiliac is offline
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Karenna,

RG6 Quad is more than fine. And yes with this setup, you need a receiver at every location you want satellite. If you just want to distribute audio and video from one sat. receiver to multiple TVs, you will need some type of distribution amp or switcher. Then you have to figure a way to control it from each room. If you use the receivers' RF remote, that might be fine, otherwise you have to route IR from each location to the satellite receiver.

I can recommend some ideas if thats what you want to do. Sometimes depending on what exactly you want to do, it may be more cost-effective to in fact get more receivers than distribute one to lots of rooms.

PS...those pics arent my house in case anyone thought that.
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  #10  
Old Apr 17th, 2006, 06:22 PM
jwb jwb is offline
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One thing I've run into, not in residential wiring yet but in business premises wiring, is the importance of choosing a datacomm installer who knows what is going on with unshielded twisted pair wiring. Category 5e is an installation standard, not a piece of wire. Yes, you need Cat5e-qualified wire, but you also need to install it properly. This means, among other things, keeping your distance from transformers, AC power, and electronic lights, bending the cable on a radius not less than 1", not stepping on, pulling, stapling, or otherwise straining the cable, and terminating the cable with less than 1/2" of untwisted wire.

And of course the total distance of any given Cat5e or Cat6 link must be less than 100 meters including patch cords. Normally this would not be a problem but some people are building really gigantic houses these days.
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