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Old Jul 26th, 2012, 06:31 PM
numnumnum numnumnum is offline
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Default SONOS Setup: Apartment with wireless but no access to modem, router or ethernet conn

Hi All,

This is my first post and I just bought 2 Sonos Play 5 and a bridge. I have wireless connection in my apartment provided by my landlord for free (along with 4 other apartments in this building), but I do not have access to the modem, router or ethernet cable. I'm trying to think of the best way to set up my system and these are the solutions I've come up with (with some questions after each one).

1) Ask my neighbour who has the modem and router in his office to hook up my bridge to it.
Q: Is the range of the bridge just as good as a normal router? I get a decent wireless connection with my macbook in every room, but if I went with this setup the bridge would have to go through one floor to hit the first Play5 and a brick wall/2 floors to hit the second Play5. Can it fire that far?

2) Use an Airport Express to extend the range of my wireless, then hook the bridge to that via an ethernet cable.
Q: I've heard that the Airport Express disables the ethernet port out when not using an apple base modem/router, which is unfortunately the case here. I don't see why Apple would design the product this way but if it is true, is there another similar solution?

3) Connect a powerline adapter to connect from my neighbour's office to my apartment, then hook the Bridge into that.
Q: I don't know anything about these products, but this is an old Oxford home with many apartments--can these adapters navigate through an entire set of electrical circuits like this?

4) (Probably unrealistic) Get the landlord to move the entire modem/router setup in my apartment or a nearby hallway.

Eventually I'd also like to set up an NAS device as well. I was originally just going to get the Time Capsule and use it as an extender also, but the Apple ethernet port limitation (if true) screws up that idea. Clearly the problem is that I don't have access to the modem/router/cable. Any thoughts or solutions are greatly appreciated.

Best,
Troy
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  #2  
Old Jul 27th, 2012, 04:34 AM
jgatie jgatie is offline
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4 would be best, of course. The others, in order of preference, would be 1, 2, 3 or 1, 3, 2, depending on your WiFi vs. Powerline issues. Neither 2 or 3 are supported by Sonos. It's not that they won't work, it's just that a properly set up Sonos system uses Sonosnet as the first hop from Ethernet. Using WiFi or Powerlines as the first hop negates the benefits of Sonosnet, so Sonos does not directly support it. The Bridge performs about as well as a Wireless 'g' router, so you can expect about 30 ft direct line of sight, less if there are walls and other obstructions, even less if there is concrete or metal. Note that unlike standard WiFi star architecture (everything talks through the central router), Sonosnet is a mesh architecture, in which every unit can talk to every other unit, creating a mesh. So the bridge does not have to directly connect to every Sonos unit, it only has to connect with one, and that in turn connects to what it can, and so on.

See this FAQ on Sonosnet for more!

As to your question about the NAS, the NAS can be connected via the Ethernet port on the back of any Sonos player or Bridge. It does not have to be hardwired to the router, although access through a fully wired connection will be better for mass copying.

Last edited by jgatie; Jul 27th, 2012 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Linked to FAQ
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  #3  
Old Jul 27th, 2012, 07:21 AM
NoBoB NoBoB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numnumnum View Post
I don't see why Apple would design the product this way but if it is true, is there another similar solution?
Ahh, if we had a nickel for every time someone said "I don't see why Apple..."

I believe the current Airport Express (the one with 2 Ethernet ports) does not disable the LAN port in client mode.

Any Wireless Ethernet bridge can perform the function you mention in #2. You can use a wireless bridge, a game adapter, or a router configured as a bridge. The Sonos Bridge would be plugged in to your Ethernet bridge (in theory, you don't need a Sonos Bridge, since you can locate the Ethernet bridge at a Sonos player location, but I don't usually recommend that with the Play:-series relocatable players as you can't move the Play connected to the bridge).

Your incoming internet feed would be over wireless, but if you don't have issues with that now on music services like Pandora, Spotify, radio, etc, then you shouldn't on Sonos either. The NAS can be connected to a Sonos unit, so there would be no issues there.
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Old Jul 27th, 2012, 10:14 AM
jishi jishi is offline
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The N version of the airport express (with one ethernet port) can be used as a bridge with a nonapple router, i have used it like a bridge with a netgear router.

Since they all use the same firmware i would say that all versions behave like this, unless they have changed it in recent firmware ( i believe it wad a 7.0.x firmware in mine).

I would probably go with a wifi bridge, and hooking up a nas via any switchport on any of the plauers or the bridge if you have one. That should be a supported solution since everything then is behind SonosNet.

Although, consider the possibility that your neighbors might see all devices that you connect to the network, including a NAS.
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  #5  
Old Jul 27th, 2012, 10:26 AM
ratty ratty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jishi View Post
I would probably go with a wifi bridge, and hooking up a nas via any switchport on any of the plauers or the bridge if you have one. That should be a supported solution since everything then is behind SonosNet.

Although, consider the possibility that your neighbors might see all devices that you connect to the network, including a NAS.
To avoid this, run a WiFi bridge into the WAN port of a secondary router and put all the Sonos & NAS devices on its private side. The local network would be double-NATed but this probably wouldn't matter.
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Old Jul 27th, 2012, 01:36 PM
jishi jishi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratty View Post
To avoid this, run a WiFi bridge into the WAN port of a secondary router and put all the Sonos & NAS devices on its private side. The local network would be double-NATed but this probably wouldn't matter.
one problem that comes to mind is if you are relying on upnp port forwarding (nat-pmp?) which would fail if you double route your traffic. If your landlord has enabled wlan client separation they should in theory not be able to see you, but not all routers support this and I'm not sure about how well this actually prevents network traffic between wireless clients.
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  #7  
Old Jul 27th, 2012, 10:18 PM
Kumar Kumar is offline
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Another possible solution is via an iPod touch + Sonos dock combination.

The iPod can give you internet radio + iTunes library. If you don't need radio, the I pod classic, with 160gb, is ideal.

Docked, and with the dock set to auto play, Sonos will play the I pod from the Sonos dock without needing internet connectivity. With lossless files, sound source quality = quality CD player.

You will need to connect a Player to the router for set up, but that will be a one time thing.

Downside is that the Sonos controllers won't work, so you will have to physically access the docked I pod for that. On the other hand, any recent iPod will play from the dock with no set up needed.
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  #8  
Old Jul 28th, 2012, 12:03 AM
ratty ratty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jishi View Post
one problem that comes to mind is if you are relying on upnp port forwarding (nat-pmp?) which would fail if you double route your traffic.
Indeed, hence my qualified remark. UPnP controlled port forwarding is a bit of a security hole anyhow. Don't P2P schemes use NAT traversal techniques these days?
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