Better power management

[jgatie]

Originally Posted by sjw

Well it just sends a signal to the 'mesh' and it all wakes up. It was just an idea/suggestion. :/

That's exactly what it does now, but in order to maintain the mesh, it cannot go into a fully powered down state. The mesh requires constant monitoring of the status in order to keep it up to date, and to monitor for a wireless cintroller trying to gain access. This requires, at a minimum, that communications be functioning.

[Dominic McCann]

Originally Posted by jgatie

That's exactly what it does now, but in order to maintain the mesh, it cannot go into a fully powered down state. The mesh requires constant monitoring of the status in order to keep it up to date, and to monitor for a wireless cintroller trying to gain access. This requires, at a minimum, that communications be functioning.

Except that with the demise of the CR200 "CONTROL" all messages will be coming via Ethernet (originally from Wi-Fi) to the first or route Sonos device connected to the network. Thus this 1st wired device could send out a wake-up signal to all the other items on the network. Clearly changing to this kind of arrangement would mean reduced backwards compatibility for those with CR100 or CR200 devices. It would also have to wait for a new generation of CONNECT, CONNECT-AMP etc, ie devices that can genuinely power down to a sleep mode.

[jgatie]

Originally Posted by Dominic McCann

Except that with the demise of the CR200 "CONTROL" all messages will be coming via Ethernet (originally from Wi-Fi) to the first or route Sonos device connected to the network. Thus this 1st wired device could send out a wake-up signal to all the other items on the network. Clearly changing to this kind of arrangement would mean reduced backwards compatibility for those with CR100 or CR200 devices. It would also have to wait for a new generation of CONNECT, CONNECT-AMP etc, ie devices that can genuinely power down to a sleep mode.

But they just gave Sonosnet connectivity to the Android controller, so direct connect devices aren't going away. Plus, regardless of the controller, the mesh still needs to be updated and maintained, so I doubt future generations of Sonos will feature a deep sleep mode.

[sjw]

Originally Posted by jgatie

That's exactly what it does now, but in order to maintain the mesh, it cannot go into a fully powered down state. The mesh requires constant monitoring of the status in order to keep it up to date, and to monitor for a wireless cintroller trying to gain access. This requires, at a minimum, that communications be functioning.

Why does it need to constantly 'maintain the mesh'? Why does it require 'constant monitoring of the status to keep it up to date'? What is that that needs maintaining? What is going to change? As soon as one device senses a 'change'/WOL/similar action, why can't it then wake up the rest? What are these actions it needs to constantly perform to keep everything aligned?
Why, for example does a ZP100 consume twice the power of a bridge when not in use? If it's all simply 'keeping the mesh synced', why isn't the amp circuitry shutdown?

[jgatie]

Originally Posted by sjw

Why does it need to constantly 'maintain the mesh'? Why does it require 'constant monitoring of the status to keep it up to date'? What is that that needs maintaining? What is going to change? As soon as one device senses a 'change'/WOL/similar action, why can't it then wake up the rest? What are these actions it needs to constantly perform to keep everything aligned?
Why, for example does a ZP100 consume twice the power of a bridge when not in use? If it's all simply 'keeping the mesh synced', why isn't the amp circuitry shutdown?

Unplug a player, then plug it back in. It takes a while to boot up. Much of that time is connecting to the mesh. The fact is, a mesh is astronomically more difficult to initialize and maintain than a star topology. Sure, you can say things aren't going to change, but what if something does (a scenario that is very common now that portable units like the P:5 and P:3 exist)? The other players have no idea the location of a player has changed, or a player has been removed, so every time the system "awakes" it has to reestablish the mesh and check the status of all the players. This takes time. Sonos eliminates this by constantly updating and maintaining the mesh.

And from everything I've heard, the amp circuitry is shut down. Where did you hear differently? As far as the difference between ia ZP100 and a bridge is concerned, I would imagine there is a significant difference in power supplies, which are active regardless of the power being drawn by the amp.

[skullpin]

I think the point I and many other here raise is that we would appreciate if Sonos could improve power efficiency of their products. We are already sold on them, and taking care of this would make us love Sonos even more.

Why it can not be done is not our concern, and technical details are moot. The point is that we would like it to be done, and I think few except diehard fanbois will disagree that it would be a good thing if it was done.

There are potentially many ways around this issue. One that is probably programmable into existing hardware is scheduled shutdown/start up times. Other methods might require new hardware, but so what? Do it. Many people would like it. How? That is not our concern. Energy consumption is our concern.

Keith

[sjw]

Originally Posted by jgatie

Sure, you can say things aren't going to change, but what if something does (a scenario that is very common now that portable units like the P:5 and P:3 exist)? The other players have no idea the location of a player has changed, or a player has been removed, so every time the system "awakes" it has to reestablish the mesh and check the status of all the players.

Each time anything changes/added/removed it could update itself of any changes and go back to sleep remembering the last system state - ready, like a coiled spring, to come back to life in the full knowledge of all the other components' status?

Originally Posted by jgatie

And from everything I've heard, the amp circuitry is shut down. Where did you hear differently? As far as the difference between ia ZP100 and a bridge is concerned, I would imagine there is a significant difference in power supplies, which are active regardless of the power being drawn by the amp.

I only know that the official SONOS power consumption figures say that the devices with amps consume way more than other devices without such circuitry. If it isn't that circuitry consuming the power I was asking what was. I gather from your answer that it is the power supply that is taking the extra power and wasting it as heat because all other superfluous circuitry is off? In which case it could be smarter and detect a lower demand and power down to the same levels?
Back to the other scenario that you say is 'entirely possible' - I find it very bad that a system with 32 zones, not playing any music at all and doing nothing at all for the user besides remembering their queue can be consuming 100's of Watts 24hours a day, 365 days a year...

[jgatie]

Originally Posted by sjw

?
Back to the other scenario that you say is 'entirely possible' - I find it very bad that a system with 32 zones, not playing any music at all and doing nothing at all for the user besides remembering their queue can be consuming 100's of Watts 24hours a day, 365 days a year...

Then I suggest you selll yours immediately to alleviate your concerns. Better yet, trash it, so that you can eliminate the possibility that anyone could connect it to make a 32 zone system and burn those 100's of watts.

[jishi]

I don't understand why people just can't accept this as a fair question. IF anything can be done with power consumption (which, by my view of the world today, is always possible), THEN Sonos should actually consider it.

If it's technically possible or not, is probably not for anyone on this forum to decide. With the attitude that everything is swell and wonderful and optimal, no innovation would occur.

I think everyone understands that the Sonos system is built the way it is and need it's power per today's design, however with design changes it would probably be able to draw less power, just sayin'.

[jgatie]

Who said it isn't a fair question? And no one said that with design changes it couldn't be made better. People proposed changes, others stated that the current design won't allow those changes, due to the mesh topology. This is an open forum. If you intend to post ideas, prepare for them to be challenged. Otherwise, we have a forum full of people hoping for fountains of unicorn tears to spring forth from their speakers, and no one posting that unicorns don't exist.