Go Back   Sonos Forums > Getting Started with Sonos

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 05:19 AM
bearoon bearoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hove
Posts: 4
Question Using neighbour's wireless router with ZoneBridge

I understand the official support view that the ZoneBridge must be hard-wired to a LAN port but before I write off Sonos as a solution for my flat, I thought it worthwhile checking here before I carry on with my original hifi plan.

As I see it, ZonePlayer offers me two advantages to my 1-bed flat setup - the ability to listen to internet radio in up to three rooms and use my iPhone as a controller.

What I can't seem to find is any information on whether it's possible to use a Wireless N Range Extender instead (connected to my neighbour's cable router wireless-ly) with a ZoneBridge if it's hardwired to the Extender?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 05:35 AM
ratty ratty is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,750
Default

Welcome to the forums.

Using a wireless ethernet bridge as the 'first hop' from the router is possible but as it's an unsupported configuration you'd be on your own in terms of product support. https://sonos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/s...hp?p_faqid=309

You'd have to use a bridge which supports multiple MAC addresses. Some models will only clone the MAC address of the device to which they're wired.

One assumes - but has to ask - that you've obtained the agreement of your neighbour for this?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 05:39 AM
Majik's Avatar
Majik Majik is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 6,171
Default

In theory it's possible, but it's not an officially supported setup.

What this means, in practice, is that it can probably be made to work (and there have been people who have used wifif bridges to do this successfully), but Sonos support will not help you get it working, nor debug any problems you have with it.

If you get a wireless range extender, make sure it's one that operates as a transparent bridge. A lot of range extenders do not (especially those designed to wirelessly connect a games console).

The other thought is that if your neighbour is knowingly and willingly allowing you to use their wifi, they might be amenable to plugging a Zonebridge onto their network for you.

Cheers,

Keith
__________________
Sonos customer (6 x ZP100, 1 x ZP120, 1 x ZP90, 4 x PLAY:5, 2 x PLAY:3, 5 x CR100, 1 x CR200, 2 x SUB, 1 x Playbar)
I am not affiliated with or representative of Sonos in any way. All opinions expressed are my own!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 06:15 AM
bearoon bearoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hove
Posts: 4
Default

Thanks Majik/Ratty - as I said, I appreciate it's not going to be officially supported; I just wondered if it was possible so thank you for the guidance.

And in answer to your double-check Ratty - YES

Looks like I'm upgrade the living room stereo with an AV receiver to which I'll hook up a NAS drive.

The Sonos got recommended when I talked with local Dealers how I enjoy radio & podcasts and how daft it seemed to be buying a radio receiver for every room (I was planning to get a Pure Avanti Flow for the bedroom).

I guess I ultimately need to borrow a ZoneBridge to see if it is possible otherwise if I forgo using the internet I'd still need a wireless router (or can I use the repeater?) to use my iPhone as a controller?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 06:16 AM
Buegie's Avatar
Buegie Buegie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 663
Default Policy Question (for the Mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratty View Post
One assumes - but has to ask - that you've obtained the agreement of your neighbour for this?

This begs the larger question - most likely for the moderators here (and possibly Sonos inc.)...

At least in the USA, piggybacking on another household's internet/cable is usually prohibited by the utilities, and possibly illegal via statute. Even with 'permission' of the registered user. Not sure how this may work outside the States - your laws may differ (but I cannot believe they would allow it).

For Example: I've spent a great deal of time assisting other users in the Apple Forums (iPod, iTunes, iPhone) and we were bound by their 'Terms of Use' which prohibited us from discussing or helping others violate Apple policies, as well as US/International laws.

This included:
- Illegal copying or 'sharing' of music
- JailBraking iPhones
- Discussing DVD copyright workarounds
- 'Poaching' Internet access
- Non-Apple authorized uses of their products

Most of the advanced members developed their own standard response to such a request indicating that this is a prohibited request that cannot be answered. Usually under swift 'penalty' of: Posts being removed; Threads being locked or removed; Up to a temporary or permanent ban from the Apple Forums. We usually responded in this manner quickly so as to alert new users that an answer would not (or ever) be forthcoming, and to prevent others from stepping over the 'line in the sand' drawn by Apple and our laws.

I understood this policy and still have no issue with it, or the concept. It protects the sponsoring company from charges of 'facilitation' when others wish to circumvent the law.

Bottom Line Question: What's the official Sonos policy about posts that request assistance in a legal grey area or a direct violation of a law?

Thanks in Advance
__________________
4x Play:5 - 2x Play:1 - 1x Connect:Amp - 1x Connect - 1x CR200 - 2x Bridge (w/2 Spares)
QNAP TS-212 NAS w/12,000+ Apple Lossless Files - 2x HP Laptop w/Win7 Pro 64bit
AppleTV (2nd Gen) - AirPort Express - 2x iPhone4S - 2x iPhone3G - iPad (3rd Gen) - Nexus 7 (2013)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 4 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 07:53 AM
ratty ratty is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,750
Default

Discussion of illegal activities is not permitted, and threads may be closed or removed.

The ISP of the OP - or his neighbour - offers legal ways to share WiFi access, so in this case one must assume that the OP and the neighbour are comfortable that they remain within the terms of their broadband service.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 09:19 AM
ianmacd's Avatar
ianmacd ianmacd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buegie View Post
At least in the USA, piggybacking on another household's internet/cable is usually prohibited by the utilities, and possibly illegal via statute.

Most of the advanced members developed their own standard response to such a request indicating that this is a prohibited request that cannot be answered.
I don't see how one could reasonably forbid discussion of something that is "usually prohibited" and "possibly illegal".

Apart from the obvious question of jurisdiction, to do so would be to forbid discussion of something that is implicitly sometimes allowed and not known to be illegal.

Quote:
Not sure how this may work outside the States - your laws may differ (but I cannot believe they would allow it).
Frankly, I would be astonished if my country's laws said anything about it. It's a matter for the individual ISP whether or not they allow connections to be shared. Why would the government care which terms and conditions my ISP sets forth for its users?
__________________
Ian Macdonald
10 zones: 6 x ZP100, 1 x ZP120, 1 x ZP90, 2 x S5,
4 x CR100 and 2 x CR200
(+ 2 x ACR & pre-3.7 PC DCR on Linux WINE)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 4 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 10:04 AM
Buegie's Avatar
Buegie Buegie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 663
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post
I don't see how one could reasonably forbid discussion of something that is "usually prohibited" and "possibly illegal".

Apart from the obvious question of jurisdiction, to do so would be to forbid discussion of something that is implicitly sometimes allowed and not known to be illegal.

Frankly, I would be astonished if my country's laws said anything about it. It's a matter for the individual ISP whether or not they allow connections to be shared. Why would the government care which terms and conditions my ISP sets forth for its users?

In the US it's called "Theft of Service" and applies to both Cable TV and Internet Services. We appear to have both federal and state level regulations on this issue. It may be a bit of a legal 'grey area' when given 'permission', but most utilities specify that Cable TV/Internet is to be used for one 'Household' only - not shared.

One should Google for their own country's laws. Just to be sure. Still your choice in what to do, though... As ratty indicated, there may be a technical method to share Internet, but the ISP may still consider it 'stealing' nonetheless. This may even be specifically codified in local/regional laws.

See:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...esoftheft.html

http://www.myaccount.charter.com/cus...eid=2074#Types

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/08/tech...racy/index.htm

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/busine...owing-or-theft

Seems it's much like speeding. Many may do it, but you can have no complaint when caught and penalized. YMMV
__________________
4x Play:5 - 2x Play:1 - 1x Connect:Amp - 1x Connect - 1x CR200 - 2x Bridge (w/2 Spares)
QNAP TS-212 NAS w/12,000+ Apple Lossless Files - 2x HP Laptop w/Win7 Pro 64bit
AppleTV (2nd Gen) - AirPort Express - 2x iPhone4S - 2x iPhone3G - iPad (3rd Gen) - Nexus 7 (2013)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 4 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Buegie; Apr 26th, 2011 at 10:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Majik's Avatar
Majik Majik is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 6,171
Default

Having checked briefly with a lawyer friend of mine, there is nothing in EU law that makes using someone else's Wifi a criminal offence, as long as they are fully in agreement with it.

It may break the T&Cs of the agreement you have with your broadband provider if you are using their Wifi to use their broadband service, but this is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

In any case, I don't believe there is any law in any part of the world which prevents a neighbour sharing a wifi network. There may be laws or contracts which prevent a neighbour sharing a broadband service, but their wifi network is not necessarily the same as their broadband service.

I regularly share my neighbours wifi network, when I visit his house (my phone and laptop are configured to use his wifi) and vice versa.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there is any meangingful criminal law in the US which prevents consentual use of a neighbouring wifi network. It would make many wifi cafes and other hotspots unworkable.

If there is, it is would be a waste of taxpayer money as it would be undetectable, unpoliceable and almost impossible to prove in court. If there is a law, personally I would feel no concern, moral or otherwise, in completely ignoring and flouting it. It would be absolutely irrelevant to me

Cheers,

Keith
__________________
Sonos customer (6 x ZP100, 1 x ZP120, 1 x ZP90, 4 x PLAY:5, 2 x PLAY:3, 5 x CR100, 1 x CR200, 2 x SUB, 1 x Playbar)
I am not affiliated with or representative of Sonos in any way. All opinions expressed are my own!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Apr 26th, 2011, 12:14 PM
ianmacd's Avatar
ianmacd ianmacd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buegie View Post
One should Google for their own country's laws. Just to be sure.
Tricky, though, if you're searching for a law that doesn't exist. How do you know when your failure to find the law in question is because it's not there?

Traditional theft of service legislation came into being to prevent physical taps of public utility companies. It still makes a lot of sense there.

Nowadays, though, things like the cable have been privatised and sold off. It's a totally different kettle of fish. Privatised companies don't need the same legal protection.

Quote:
As ratty indicated, there may be a technical method to share Internet, but the ISP may still consider it 'stealing' nonetheless.
And many do, but many also offer different classes of service that allow things that the more basic types of account don't.

Every ISP is different, which is why I am of the opinion that you can't reasonably apply a blanket policy to discussion of network sharing. In the context of Sonos, it doesn't seem wise to me for the company to adopt any stance at all on the matter, since it is entirely tangential to the business they're in.

When things come closer to home, e.g. discussion of how to circumvent regional restrictions on partner services, you'll see that the mods do intervene. I can understand that a lot more, whether or not I agree with it.

I wouldn't expect an unbiased reading of the law from a party with such an obvious stake in one particular interpretation of it.

The page you link to does, however, contain one clause so Draconian by European legal standards, that I feel moved to quote it here:

Quote:
Passive Theft
Passive theft occurs when someone moves into a new residence or business facility and notices that the premise receives cable services without an account, but nevertheless does not take any steps to become a subscriber or have the service disconnected.
That really takes the biscuit.

If I move into a new home and notice that the cable company has failed, through their own incompetence, to sever the connection of the previous occupant, and I fail to report this fact to them, I am now liable for the cable company's sloppy business practices and general incompetence?

Even in the US, I'd be more than a little surprised to be shown an account of a successful prosecution under this clause.

Passive theft, indeed. Whatever next?

But I'm straying too far from the topic now.

Quote:
Seems it's much like speeding. Many may do it, but you can have no complaint when caught and penalized. YMMV
I would complain, on the other hand, if I was charged with passive speeding for having been a passenger in the car.
__________________
Ian Macdonald
10 zones: 6 x ZP100, 1 x ZP120, 1 x ZP90, 2 x S5,
4 x CR100 and 2 x CR200
(+ 2 x ACR & pre-3.7 PC DCR on Linux WINE)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 4 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
connection, router, setup, wireless, zoneplayer

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:03 AM.