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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 08:22 AM
mrjofus1959 mrjofus1959 is offline
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Default Wireless Issues - What to Do?

So I've been a happy Sonos owner as of about 3 months ago when I purchased a Connect:Amp and Bridge. Everything has worked fine without any connectivity issues. Then at the beginning of August I purchased a Play:5 for the garage (brewery, furniture refinishing, car parking). With the one speaker everything seemed to be working just fine. Then I added a second Play:5 and that's where things got interesting.

I created a stereo pair and things seemed to be working fine. But then the right speaker kept dropping out. I went through the reset-to-fix path, checked the wireless channels on my router vs the Sonos, etc. Nothing seemed to fix the problem, and the Bridge was just on the other side of the wall inside the house.

So I made an assumption that the new Play:5 was defective, returned it to Amazon, and they sent me another one. At that point I had the pair sitting on my keezer (kegerator/freezer) and everything was working just fine. But yesterday I finally got to mountig the speakers up on the wall in the garage, and after just a few minutes the right speaker started dropping out again.

No matter what I tried I couldn't get the wireless setup to work. So as a last ditch effort I grabbed a network cable and connected it between just the pair of speakers and to my surprise that seems to have fixed the issue!

So does this even make sense? It seems the left speaker never has wireless problems, and I'm assuming that now it's switch is acting as a source to the right speaker, with the right speaker giving preference to the wired connection over its sketchy wireless connection?

Juist wondering if anyone has seen anything like this before? I'm a little bummed about having a network cable hanging across the wall in our newly remodeled garage, but at least it seems to be working fine this way.
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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 09:08 AM
mrjofus1959 mrjofus1959 is offline
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NOTE: All of my Sonos devices has reserved IP addresses on my network, so it's definitely not an address conflict as has been suggested in another Play:5 thread.
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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 10:26 AM
buzz buzz is offline
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mrjofus1959,

When in diagnostic mode I will never say that "it must be [...]" or "cannot be [...]", else I could easily be blind sided. A while back I changed routers, reset everything, reserved all of the IP addresses, and everything was fine -- for a while. Some days later it seemed that an aging NAS was failing because it would drop from the network, possibly while a track was playing. I'm too smart to be victimized by a duplicate IP address, right? I was spinning my wheels trying to diagnose the thing, but I finally swallowed my pride and checked for duplicate IP addresses, bingo! I had forgotten about a tiny little device hidden away, the only device on my network using a fixed IP address. During the reconfiguration I had moved the DHCP range, which now included the fixed device. It was only a matter of time before the little guy came online and conflicted with something, in my case it was the NAS.

I do follow the probabilities. My first failure hypothesis will not be the 0.1% case.

In your case a duplicate IP address will not be at the top of my list. Most likely you have a wireless range or interference issue. Start by investigating RF channels. Your WiFi should use channel 1, 6, or 11, avoid "20MHz" or "Wide" channels and use a different channel from the SONOS system. Changing the SONOS channel might help.

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, investigate the Network Matrix at the bottom of the diagnostic report found at http://[x.x.x.x]:1400/support/review. x.x.x.x is the IP address of a player. This is an undocumented area, but we have figured out a few things. You can search the forums for some of our observations.

Last edited by buzz; Sep 15th, 2013 at 01:37 PM. Reason: minor grammar
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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 10:35 AM
ratty ratty is offline
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The left unit of a bonded pair is the 'coordinator'. It pulls the stream and sends it to the right unit. The two units must maintain a very tight timing sync in order to sustain a stable stereo acoustic image.

The paths taken by traffic across the SonosNet wireless mesh are determined by the Spanning Tree Protocol, and it's not always the case that traffic between the paired units will follow the most direct route. Under some circumstances it can loop via a much more distant node, and if wireless conditions are a bit borderline this can trigger problems.

The obvious answer is to try running a cable between the stereo pair as you've done. (In relatively rare cases even this is ignored.)

An alternative is to steer the topology of active wireless links, such as by changing the 'root' unit in the system though this may result in unwelcome side effects in other parts of the system. Sonos Support would be the people to consult about such a change as it's not a documented user option.
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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 12:45 PM
mrjofus1959 mrjofus1959 is offline
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Buzz - Fair enough on the absolutes in my IP statement. I just double-checked my router's DHCP client table though and that's all clear. I have tried swapping around the wireless channels but that didn't seem to help. Right now my wifi is on 11 and Sonos is on 1.

Thanks for pointing me to the page with the Network Matrix. That looks interesting, so I'll have to do some forum searching.

One other thing to note is that I could play the "right" speaker when it wasn't paired for stereo with no apparent problems for an extended period of time. It only seems to have an issue if it's paired, either as the slave unit to the left Play:5 or as the coordinator.

After my last full wireless attempt when it quit working I just reconnected the cable from the L to the R and play resumed normally in a couple of seconds.
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Old Sep 15th, 2013, 01:48 PM
ratty ratty is offline
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Take a screen grab of the network matrix, scrub out the MAC addresses, upload it somewhere and post the link. We can evaluate the situation in terms of SonosNet topology and the signal strength snapshot.
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Old Sep 16th, 2013, 04:57 AM
jishi jishi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjofus1959 View Post
One other thing to note is that I could play the "right" speaker when it wasn't paired for stereo with no apparent problems for an extended period of time.
This could be explained by the fact that your right speaker is probably connected to your bridge through a wireless link, and your your left is also connected directly to the bridge. Because of that, your right speaker will stream from the left speaker, through two wireless links. This could probably be adjusted by moving around which player that is the root bridge, but that would of course affect your Connect:AMP, maybe negatively.

Sonos support would have a better understanding of this.

If it were me, I would make one of the players in the stereo pair the root bridge, the one which has the best signal strength to your bridge. That way, the pair would speak directly to each other, hopefully. The Connect:AMP would perhaps connect to that Play:5 instead, which may or may not become a problem.

If you are adventurous you could give it a try, you can just revert it if it becomes worse.
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Old Sep 16th, 2013, 06:24 AM
ratty ratty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jishi View Post
If it were me, I would make one of the players in the stereo pair the root bridge, the one which has the best signal strength to your bridge. That way, the pair would speak directly to each other, hopefully. The Connect:AMP would perhaps connect to that Play:5 instead, which may or may not become a problem.
Hence my comment about possible 'unwelcome side effects' in tampering with the root bridge location without an understanding of what the network matrix is displaying. Shoving the root bridge off to one side of the property (in the garage) might not be a good idea.
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Old Sep 16th, 2013, 08:29 AM
jishi jishi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratty View Post
Hence my comment about possible 'unwelcome side effects' in tampering with the root bridge location without an understanding of what the network matrix is displaying. Shoving the root bridge off to one side of the property (in the garage) might not be a good idea.
Yeah, I didn't reallysee the garage part, although I got hung up on this: "Nothing seemed to fix the problem, and the Bridge was just on the other side of the wall inside the house. "

I assumed that most of the stuff was close by. Personally I'm all for trial and error though Worst case scenario he would need to factory reset everything and set it up once again if he can't restore the root-STP changes.

Considering that it's just on the other side of the wall, maybe it is located such that wiring it might be an option.
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Old Sep 16th, 2013, 09:08 AM
mrjofus1959 mrjofus1959 is offline
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Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. I have captured images of the Network Matrix for both the "wired" config (cable between Play:5s) and "wireless" config. They can be viewed on Flickr (I hope) at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101899258@N03/9838524106/ (Wired)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101899258@N03/9838524536/ (Wireless)

One thing I noticed as I kept refreshing the page on my iPad while watching TV last night was that periodically the 4 devices on the left would sometimes show degradation of the signal, including the "Deck" Connect:Amp that's on 15' away from the Bridge in our family room. So it would seem that perhaps there's some sort of interference being generated somewhere nearby???

For the time being I have the network cable strung between the 2 Play:5s in my garage, and I went one step further to turn off the wireless in the right speaker so that it only gets its data from the left speaker.

And just for reference here's a link to a pic on the speakers up on the wall - http://www.flickr.com/photos/101899258@N03/9774574843/. You'll notice there are plenty of fluorescent light fixtures out there, but hopefully that's not an issue. And also note that when the 2 speakers were sitting on the freezer below they worked perfectly for several days with no dropouts.

Thanks again for your help and comments. I'd love to not have a cable between the speakers at some point...
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Last edited by mrjofus1959; Sep 20th, 2013 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Updated photo links
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