Real time access to itunes library without indexing?

[chuckvvd]

If, like me, you're using a shared itunes library (on a usb drive attached to a time capsule in my case) and no other source of music, why do we have to go through the pain of indexing music every time we make a change in itunes and not having play count updated (needed in order to update our genius profile to create nice playlists ).

Wouldn't it be better to access directly, on the fly, without indexing, the itunes library?

Any real technical issue stopping this?

Many thanks!

[buzz]

chuckvvd,

One reason why the SONOS system is so fast is because the music index is stored in the ZonePlayers. While playing tracks, SONOS simply requests a track file from the computer or hard drive.

Using the iTunes library directly would require much more network activity, resulting in a slower the user interface.

Further, any internal changes in the iTunes library index structure would require a corresponding change by SONOS. Potentially, this would cause SONOS to break after each iTunes upgrade. And, as an additional insult, SONOS would be required to support older iTunes versions because some SONOS customers may not update their iTunes program.

[Ubertaffy]

also it would basically mean that sonos has to do one whole set of functions if people use itunes and another whole set that is different if they don't. Its not that I don't like the thought behind the idea...would make some things seemingly easier... but when you dig down to the reasons it becomes clear why they stick to a file system and a hardware based player as opposed to needing to integrate with any other software.

[pjn]

Sorry to drag up an older thread, but I've been asking myself the same question recently.

Seeing as Sonos already provide similar functionality by allowing access to Windows Media Sharing libraries without having to add to the Sonos index, iTunes shared libraries could work using the same principle. Changes to the iTunes library format shouldn't be an issue, because you don't access the XML files directly using the Shared Libraries method.

For example, many NAS boxes have implemented iTunes shared music libraries for a while now - and changes to the iTunes library format hasn't broken these 'older' implementations.

So what if it's a bit slower? It's an optional extension to how Sonos currently works - people can still use the indexed library if they like, and easily switch between the two like you can currently with Windows Media Shares. As a Mac user, I'd love to have direct access to my household's shared iTunes libraries without having to reindex all the time or worrying about when someone disconnects their laptop for a while.

It's not removing or reducing any existing functionality, and it's not exactly a major concept-change (remember - Sonos already support direct access to Windows Media Shares - which IMHO negates the existing excuses regarding library speed etc)

I've spent a long time trying to find a way to extend the 65,000 file limit on my Sonos using a Mac-Only solution... and I can't find any program that perfectly emulates WMS. The nearest thing is the Asset uPnP server.

iTunes Shared Library support would immediately and easily allow anyone to access their iTunes library... even more easily than the current method... it would just 'appear' in the controller.

[hershfunk]

PJN-

Can you get Asset to show up in the Sonos remote, or just the Desktop Controller?

I just bought an iMac...I sort of had it figured out on the PC mixing the Windows Media Share with the Sonos Library (as far as overcoming the 65K limit)...hoping to get something similar going on the Mac.

I downloaded a UPNP program called Eyeconnect, but can't get Sonos to recognize it.

Thanks,
Scott

[pjn]

Hi Scott

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get Asset working as I'd hoped - although I can't actually remember what the issue was now. I seem to recall you can't use it in this way anymore, but someone in the forum might be able to remind me why, or correct me!

I've spent months trying every uPnP server program I can find for the Mac, hoping that one of them would be able to replicate the Windows Media Sharing (or Rhapsody server) functionality within Sonos... but none of them worked in the correct way.

Anyway, I eventually got fed up trying workarounds and decided to subscribe to Napster instead, adding as much of my iTunes library as I needed to my Napster library!

Sorry I can't be any more help.

[Majik]

It is not currently possible for a non-Apple device like Sonos to stream directly from a shared iTunes library. The reason is is because Apple have blocked this from happening. They don't want you to use Sonos with your iTunes setup. They want you to buy an Apple product instead, so they block non-Apple products from access.

Apple originally introduced a music sharing protocol, DAAP, which supports sharing of music between devices across a LAN. It was designed to support sharing of music between iTunes installations on the same network. It was originally open.

DAAP is roughly equivalent to UPnP Media Services. Many NAS devices implement DAAP using tools like Firefly.

In theory Sonos could have developed DAAP capability to access the iTunes libraries, which would achive much of what you are asking for. You could then have accessed your iTunes library directly by pointing it at iTunes on your PC (or on a Firefly enabled NAS).

Unfortunately, when Apple saw potentially competitive products emerging which used DAAP and found people were using DAAP in creative ways which Apple couldn't control, they started locking it down in iTunes so that it's only usable for Apple devices. That pretty much made DAAP a waste of time for third-parties like Sonos.

So blame Apple for the inability to do this!

I will add that it is true that you could still use this facility on Firefly enabled NAS devices. DAAP is still usable on non-Apple implementations, but this is an entirely unofficial implementation and the reality is that most people who would want this capability (like the OP) won't have such a NAS and will want to stream it directly from iTunes. Is it worth developing for the few people who do have and use a Firefly enabled NAS? Almost certainly not.

If Sonos were to develop this sort of capability for people with NASs, it makes no sense to use DAAP. DAAP had a lot of promise but Apple's platform isolation policies have relegated it to being a niche proprietary protocol with poor support. It makes far more sense to support UPnP as this provides all the facilities of DAAP, but also supports non Apple environments.

I know this isn't what the OP asked for, but from a practical point of view, I see this is really a request for generic UPnP Media Server support.

Cheers,

Keith

[pjn]

That's an interesting read, Majik - thanks for clarifying some things I wasn't aware of

[hershfunk]

Thanks Majik. That leaves me with basically one easy option, which is to turn my old PC into a music server.

I will just run an instance of WM share and an instance of Rhapsody, and between those two programs on my PC and what Sonos can handle on my iMac, I should be able to access my entire library via Sonos.

Now I just need to find a decent ID3 tagger for iMac. Bummer that Tag&Rename is Windows only.

Scott